Annales/2009/November8
From ROMA Scribae
Recorded by William Gide. Usual light editing for obvious spelling errors, and removal of chit-chat completely unrelated to Senate business.
By far the longest part of the session was devoted to discussion a reform of the Senate (under "Sparse Senate Attendance"). The discussion of that is continued in this message board thread.
Contents |
Opening
[10:31] Maali Beck: Welcome to the Senate meeting
[10:31] Maali Beck: Citizens of ROMA, and distinguished Senators
[10:32] Torin Golding claps
[10:32] Maali Beck: I want to recognize the Praetorian Guard
[10:32] JT Vale: That's great that you will record, William. We have all the transcripts recorded that you can add.
[10:32] Maali Beck: who is always in attendance
[10:32] Torin Golding applauds for the Praetorians
[10:32] Maali Beck: and who protects the Senators
[10:33] Maali Beck claps
[10:33] Achille Back smiles
[10:33] Maali Beck: We are grateful for your service, to the Emperor and the Senate
[10:33] JT Vale waves fist in air...Woot Woot!
[10:33] Maali Beck: :-)
[10:33] Achille Back: It's an honor, senatores.
[10:33] JT Vale: Yeah, Praetorians!
[10:33] Enamabala Towradgi golf claps.
[10:33] Torin Golding claps
[10:33] Maali Beck: Citizens of ROMA, we, the Senate are here to serve you
[10:34] Enamabala Towradgi: They startle easily, you know.
[10:34] JT Vale regains composure.
[10:34] Ragark Fiertze: Salvete Omnes
[10:34] Maali Beck: as we serve the Emperor, and we appreciate your attendance and interest
[10:34] Maali Beck: As always, we welcome your input
[10:34] Maali Beck: and hope you have opportunities to meet and speak with
[10:34] Maali Beck: the Senators
[10:34] Maali Beck: about concerns
[10:34] Maali Beck glances at the horse
[10:35] Maali Beck: We welcome applications to the senate
[10:35] Maali Beck: of those who are willing to serve the Emperor and ROMA
[10:35] Maali Beck: we had a recent applicant
[10:35] Maali Beck: who wishes his application to be tabled at this time
[10:36] Maali Beck: until he is able to devote more time to ROMA and to the service of the Emperor
[10:36] Torin Golding reminds himself to build a table for the curia
[10:36] Maali Beck: :-)
[10:36] Enamabala Towradgi coughs, "But you seemed to put in a new chair for the Emperor..." *cough*
State of the Sim
[10:36] Maali Beck: Prefect Torin has some news regarding the state of the sim
[10:36] Maali Beck: that he wishes to share
[10:36] Maali Beck: so we will begin with his comments
[10:37] Torin Golding: good morning
[10:37] Maali Beck smiles at Prefect Torin
[10:37] Torin Golding: As with all the senate meetings, I would like to offer a short 'state of the sim' address....
[10:38] Torin Golding: On the most part things are good, although the hard economic times are finally being felt on the ground here in ROMA I think....
[10:39] Torin Golding: The Marketplace in particular is looking quite bare, though I will be combining some stalls for some people after this meeting which will help fill out the vacancies....
[10:39] Torin Golding: And for the first time in a long time, we have a few open Subura plots....
[10:39] JT Vale considers re-introducing his home for homeless Senators idea.
[10:39] Maali Beck grins
[10:40] Torin Golding: So if you know anyone who is thinking about either a stall or a house, now is the time to get in on the ground floor....
[10:40] Torin Golding: On the positive side, we have had many successes of late...
[10:41] Torin Golding: New people come every day, and many of them even work their way through the 'Missing Egyptian' game (we get a notification when someone finishes that for the RAS board, so it is a good indicator of visitor numbers and interest)
[10:42] Torin Golding: And I would encourage those of us who are Praetors to sign on duty more often and help turn the visitors into returning Citizens....
[10:42] Torin Golding: Finally, I would like to mention three new additions...
[10:43] Torin Golding: The first are the new buildings in ROMA since last time the Senate met, and the redesign of the central zone around the Hippodrome....
[10:43] Maali Beck nods
[10:43] Enamabala Towradgi wonders if there is a way apply that concept to Senators. :P
[10:43] Torin Golding: A huge undertakinig, but mostly complete now. And an improvement I think. Our Agistores can race now without the lag of the spectators making the horses run slow.
10:44] Tonina Rodenberger smiles
[10:44] Maali Beck looks around at the poor Senate attendance
[10:44] Melanippe Karas applauds
[10:44] Torin Golding: The second is the [RAS] system which seems to be successful and enjoyed by mostly everyone! This month we will introduce a handful of new achivements and badges....
[10:45] Melanippe Karas: Ooooh.
[10:45] Enamabala Towradgi still needs to put his up.
[10:45] Silverbow Janus: realises to my shame I havent got a foot on the RAS system
[10:45] Torin Golding: And will continue to do that in a regular fashion. Let the avatar ROMA Messenger know if there are any suggestions you have for badges and awards. Particularly if you are in a ROMA group....
[10:46] Torin Golding: And finally, the third new thing, is the ACTA ROMA....
[10:46] William Gide: Woohoo!
[10:46] Maali Beck loves this constant growth in ROMA
[10:46] Maali Beck smiles with pride
[10:46] Torin Golding: The ROMA Scribae group will be publishing a bi-weekly newsletter starting this month....
[10:46] Serafina Itano claps
[10:47] Torin Golding: Spaciva Ivanova will be editing the newsletter which will have both an in world (notecard) and web (blog) presence....
[10:48] Torin Golding: She is eager to have contributors, so please let her know if you would like to write some very brief notices about goings-on in ROMA.....
[10:48] Torin Golding: (I'll have a more detailed blog entry today posted about what exactly is needed)
[10:48] Enamabala Towradgi considers "tweets from the empty Curia"
[10:48] Maali Beck nods
[10:49] Torin Golding: I believe that is it. Overall, ROMA healthy good- though we need more merchants and Suburan renters. And Senators apparently ;)
[10:49] Torin Golding: Thank you.
[10:49] Maali Beck: Thank you, Torin
[10:49] Maali Beck: is there any discussion about Torin's comments?
Discussion
[10:51] Enamabala Towradgi will believe this chariot business when he wins a race.
[10:51] Torin Golding: The market and subura vacancies are the most troubling, since they help pay for everything.
[10:51] Maali Beck nods
[10:51] Torin Golding: So getting the word out to friends and new citizens is key.
[10:51] Enamabala Towradgi: You could always form a new Roma group. The Roma Mob and shakedown tennants for 'protection' money or their prims start vanishing.
[10:52] Maali Beck: and we can put the word out that there are lots available in Subura
[10:52] Maali Beck: that is a rare occurrance
[10:52] Torin Golding: They are seaside lots too so should be a desire for them
[10:52] Maali Beck: ooo!
[10:52] William Gide: Oooh.
[10:52] Torin Golding: lol E
[10:52] Airedale Magic: OOOOO!! Seaside
[10:52] Airedale Magic: errrrm
[10:52] Enamabala Towradgi: I would happily head up this group providing I got a cut.
[10:53] Maali Beck: with a knife?
[10:53] William Gide: Tax Farming!
[10:53] Enamabala Towradgi: xD
[10:53] Torin Golding: Are you going to open a permanent shop JT?
[10:53] Silverbow Janus: loves the sea air up my toga, recomends a seaside plot
[10:53] Maali Beck: hahah, Silver
[10:53] Maali Beck: JT?
[10:54] Maali Beck: E, please nudge the Censor
[10:54] Serafina Itano smiles at JT
[10:54] Serafina Itano: Sounds like a perfect place for a home for homeless senators
[10:54] Enamabala Towradgi reaches into his toga for a sap.
[10:54] Torin Golding: I thought they were seaside. There may have been some moving around I didn't see
[10:54] Maali Beck: there may be a rush to Subura following this meeting
[10:54] Enamabala Towradgi: My neighbors keep moving out. Is there anything anyone wants to tell me?
[10:54] Melanippe Karas laughs
[10:54] Maali Beck: hahahaha
[10:54] Maali Beck: no, E
[10:54] Enamabala Towradgi: Because I assure you, the volcano is purely decoration.
[10:55] Alekso Minotaur: lol Ena!!
[10:55] Maali Beck grins
[10:55] JT Vale: lol
[10:55] Torin Golding: lol
[10:55] Melanippe Karas couldn't find the volcano last time she looked
[10:55] Enamabala Towradgi: Vesuvius was bulldozed.
[10:55] Maali Beck: Senators, there is a request from an unnamed citizen
[10:55] Melanippe Karas twitches
[10:55] Torin Golding: The big volcano is gone until the next Vulcania. Enam has a small one in his backyard
Notice Board
[10:56] Maali Beck: for a simple notice board in the plaza with days/times of events
[10:56] Maali Beck: it seems the Tabularium is crowded
[10:56] Maali Beck: and confusing to some
[10:56] Enamabala Towradgi: Motion to support that idea with the subtext that it was mine.
[10:56] Maali Beck: hehe
[10:56] Torin Golding: Would a prim link to the google calendar work?
[10:56] Maali Beck: that's a great idea!
[10:57] Silverbow Janus: chuckles and glad to ut the blame on Ena
[10:57] Maali Beck: No wonder you are the prefect!
[10:57] Torin Golding: I'll remind folk that the full website for the Citizens also has a link to the calendar
[10:57] William Gide: I myself often ignore requests from SL objects to take me to a web page. I don't know how common that is.
[10:57] Enamabala Towradgi: You could incorporate it into Tellus, possibly?
[10:58] Enamabala Towradgi: He's right there on the dock.
[10:58] Torin Golding: Yes i'll do that too Enam
[10:58] Torin Golding: And put the calendar prim next to him too
[10:58] Silverbow Janus: likes the idea of tellus telling me where i should be and when
[10:58] Torin Golding: http://romacitizens.com/calendar.html
[10:58] Maali Beck: I suggest we bookmark the page that Torin just provided
[10:59] Maali Beck: ok, moving on, then
[11:00] Maali Beck: ty each of you for your suggestions
[11:00] Torin Golding: I'll add the calendar stuff today
Other Issues
[11:00] Maali Beck: Are there any other issues that the Senators wish to address?
[11:00] Maali Beck: or bring to the floor?
Sparse Senate Attendance
[11:02] Maali Beck: I must state my concern
[11:02] Maali Beck: about the few senators who attend meetings
[11:02] Maali Beck: but also thank each of you who attend regularly
[11:03] Maali Beck: in service of ROMA
[11:03] Maali Beck: and the Emperor
[11:03] Torin Golding: And also who host the Ave Weekends as well. Sometimes at last minute.
[11:03] Enamabala Towradgi: We might need to initiate a Senatorial Draft.
[11:03] Maali Beck: indeed, T
[11:03] Enamabala Towradgi: The stands are full. :P
[11:03] JT Vale: May I make a bold suggestion? Just as a point for debate
[11:04] Torin Golding: Or make the Senate something that other Citizens wish to join
[11:04] Maali Beck: We have had a few who have stepped up to host the Ave Weekend parties
[11:04] Maali Beck smiles at Serafina
[11:04] Enamabala Towradgi addresses the crowd, "Would anyone like to be Senator for a day? ...or maybe four years with a nice college incentive after service...?"
[11:04] Maali Beck: yes, JT?
[11:04] JT Vale: As much as it pains me to say, perhaps it is time to dissolve this Senate.
[11:05] Maali Beck: uhm NO
[11:05] JT Vale: And let it reform again.
[11:05] Achille Back pays attention....
[11:05] JT Vale: With new interest.
[11:05] JT Vale: This Senate may have run its course.
[11:05] Maali Beck: what is ROMA w/out a Senate?
[11:05] Silverbow Janus shouts: ohhhhhh:-(....shouts out I love my senators
[11:05] JT Vale: There is no growth.
[11:05] Alekso Minotaur looks at Achille caressing his gladius glancing at JT
[11:06] Achille Back moves his hand on his gladius
[11:06] Airedale Magic: Grins at brothey
[11:06] Torin Golding: What are the reasons there is no growth?
[11:06] JT Vale: In the Senate. THere is nothing happening.
[11:06] Toe Fermi: looks the people steady hand on his gladius
[11:06] Enamabala Towradgi: With due respect, JT, dissolving this body to simply form a new one seems counter-intuitive.
[11:07] JT Vale: And now Senators don't attend. E, new members and perhaps former members would reorganize and gain new life. This would not be unlike dissolving the Parliment.
[11:07] William Gide: While the population currently in SL is fairly active, *new*, long-term SLer numbers have also slowed recently.
[11:08] JT Vale: It has been clear for a long time that this Senate lacks fresh ideas and participation.
[11:08] JT Vale: I'm just throwing it out there. Perhaps it is time to recognize that the First ROMA Senate did some great things, but now it time for something else to start.
[11:09] JT Vale: Of course, this could be a way to put those not attending to the test.
[11:09] Serafina Itano: We can't force nobody to join the senate. I tried to convince Nina....but....well....she offerd me a black eye
[11:09] Alekso Minotaur looks at the revolutionary senator thinking he's already dead meat for worms
[11:09] Torin Golding: Is there a perception that the Senate is not a desirable position among the Citizenry?
[11:10] JT Vale: I will start a movement to end this Senate and see if they step up to defeat me.
[11:10] JT Vale: I don't think it is that, T.
[11:10] Achille Back wonders about the good opportunities on changing from republic to empire....
[11:10] JT Vale: At all.
[11:10] Maali Beck glares at JT
[11:10] Enamabala Towradgi: I have to admit that makes a fair amount of sense.
[11:10] JT Vale: Growth often comes from change.
[11:11] Maali Beck: let us hear from the citizens
[11:11] Torin Golding: I know some people do not wish to join the senate because there is the perception that it would be another group that would require participation and they feel stretched already
[11:11] Tonina Rodenberger nods
[11:11] William Gide nods.
[11:11] Torin Golding: Especially from officers in other ROMA groups.....
[11:12] Torin Golding: Although most attempts to get the Senate populace to redefine themselves has not worked.
[11:12] Maali Beck: Are there among you, Citzens of ROMA
[11:12] JT Vale: That's why I call for a total dissolution.
[11:12] Maali Beck: who wish the Senate to dissolve?
[11:12] Enamabala Towradgi: Of Roma's groups the Senate is the least visible, also.
[11:12] JT Vale: Let it emmerge out of the citizens as it did the firt time.
[11:12] Torin Golding: From the beginning I suggested that the Senate could be a place where, for example, the charity wing of the sim could function. The Relay for Life for example.
[11:12] Achille Back rises hand respectfully
[11:13] JT Vale: first*
[11:13] Torin Golding: Why is that Enam?
[11:13] Maali Beck: one moment, please, Achille
[11:13] Maali Beck: E?
[11:13] JT Vale: And the Senate did not ake that on in force.
[11:13] Torin Golding: One would think Enam that senators would walk around with their titles visible, the most visible.
[11:13] Enamabala Towradgi: Aside from our monthly meetings and occasional participation in events, when we are not here or there, there is not much around Roma publicizing the Senate.
[11:14] Maali Beck: not for lack of trying
[11:14] Maali Beck: however we cannot force participation
[11:14] Silverbow Janus: wish the meetings were more often.........
[11:14] Maali Beck: even in attending meetings
[11:14] Torin Golding: My own opinion is that the current group of senators we have are mostly old timers. And most of them have moved on to other things besides SL.
[11:14] Enamabala Towradgi: I understand.
[11:14] Maali Beck sighs
[11:14] Torin Golding: What you're looking at JT is five old timers.
[11:14] Maali Beck: Achille?
[11:14] Achille Back: thank you Princeps Senatus, if the senators would appriciate my personal thought about that as officer of a Roma group, I'll be glad to speak.
[11:14] Torin Golding: Five out of ten
[11:14] Maali Beck: yes, please, Achille
[11:15] Achille Back: What Praefectus Torin said about ROMA group officers is correct. Though, It's my personal thought that the senate of ROMA should have at least one ambassador from each ROMA group
[11:15] JT Vale: (With all due respect, the meeting was called late so some may have had other plans. Perhaps a more regular schedule would allow people to put it into their schedule. Like the collegia.)
[11:16] JT Vale: That is a cool idea for a Senate, Achille.
[11:16] JT Vale: With members at large.
[11:16] William Gide nods at Achille's idea.
[11:16] Tonina Rodenberger nods
[11:16] JT Vale: citizens.
[11:16] Achille Back: because we already have meeting together with Praefectus Torin, but having them all togheter in definite days or times may be useful, that's what I think, thank you respected Senatores.
[11:16] Silverbow Janus: nods forregular day and time then dont need to keep bugging maali
[11:17] JT Vale: Great idea, Achille.
[11:17] Maali Beck: My only concern about that, Achille
[11:17] Melanippe Karas thinks the Calendar would work well with that, if people would get used to using it.
[11:17] Maali Beck: is that it limits the Senate to the people in ROMA who are already taxed
[11:17] Torin Golding: Our most active groups are the collegia and Legion. Both have a very clear purpose. I'm not sure what the senatorial purpose is.
[11:17] Maali Beck: and gives few others an opportunity to serve ROMA
[11:17] Maali Beck: there could likely be the same small group
[11:17] Maali Beck: doing everything in ROMA
[11:18] Torin Golding: Although Maali, I think that is the way SL societies function
[11:18] William Gide suspects Torin is correct in this.
[11:18] Maali Beck sits down
[11:18] Torin Golding: There are organizers (to varying degrees) who will automatically become officers and organizers within groups.
[11:18] Achille Back: Yes, and If I can add something, I just meant to add to the senate the ROMA group officers, not only to make the senate of these.
[11:18] Melanippe Karas thinks the 1%/10%/90% rule applies.
[11:19] Torin Golding: And then there are others who enjoy just showing up and ROMA may be one of five main areas they participate in inside SL
[11:19] Torin Golding: Can you explain that rule Mel?
[11:20] Torin Golding: I think much of the ennui within the Senate has to do with the fact that the majority have moved on.
[11:20] Torin Golding: They're not in ROMA or even SL any more regularly.
[11:20] Silverbow Janus: puts up a hand to speak
[11:20] Maali Beck thinks she's out of a job in ROMA
[11:20] Melanippe Karas: Ah - certainly. It's that in any given group, 90% will do 10% of the work, and 10% will do 90% of the work.
[11:20] Torin Golding: Even one of our censors.
[11:20] JT Vale: Would you be willing to open that group to some members at large, Torin? The group of all the leaders of the groups?
[11:21] Melanippe Karas: And then there's that 1% like Angelia. :D
[11:21] Torin Golding: lol mel
[11:21] Melanippe Karas: I've seen it... well, pretty much everywhere, Praefectus.
[11:21] JT Vale: Perhaps members that would actually have to do something to be elected so there would be even more prestige with being a member of the Senate...the group of ROMA group leaders.
[11:21] Torin Golding: I agree Mel.
[11:21] Silverbow Janus: waves a hand
[11:21] Maali Beck: yes, Silver?
[11:22] Silverbow Janus: I have been around roma for a long time now
[11:22] Torin Golding: But then JT that would give us even fewer numbers in the senate
[11:22] Silverbow Janus: and to my shame not held a post here
[11:22] JT Vale: This Senate would be dissolved.
[11:22] Torin Golding: Can you give us your thoughts why Silver?
[11:22] Silverbow Janus: but I do think the senate important and try to come to meetings
[11:22] JT Vale: A new Senate would be named that would include the group leaders plus a set? number of members at large.
[11:23] Silverbow Janus: it is worry about letting you down if I cant make it to meetings
[11:23] JT Vale: These would be current Senator or perhaps we have to reapply.
[11:23] Silverbow Janus: but i would suggest that you just ask senators if they want to continue
[11:23] Silverbow Janus: if they dont they could retire
[11:23] Torin Golding: JT you are talking not just about dissoultuion, but a repurposing
[11:23] Spaciva Ivanova: whispers.. are we allowed to speak ?
[11:23] JT Vale: I say kick everyone out and make them reapply.
[11:23] Melanippe Karas: Like the British Parliament.
[11:23] Maali Beck: I am listening Silver
[11:23] Enamabala Towradgi: I believe Torin hit the nail on the head with lack of purpose being the Senate's weakness. It is the root of interest and participation.
[11:23] Melanippe Karas: That sort of dissolution.
[11:23] Silverbow Janus: just ask I say, they may wish to retire
[11:23] Torin Golding: JT burning down a house in SL rarely results in a brand new foundation.
[11:24] JT Vale: Yes, that is my goal. I agree with you that this Senate lacks purpose. It has not found one.
[11:24] Torin Golding: Its not like RL
[11:24] Silverbow Janus: then ask citizens if they want to appy
[11:24] Maali Beck: Thank you, Silver
[11:24] Maali Beck: it seems that JT'
[11:24] JT Vale: T, the great thing is that you would have a core group (the leaders) right off the bat. Then you would get those who are interested in participating.
[11:24] Maali Beck: wishes to take the Senate a new direction
[11:24] Silverbow Janus: sighs......I think the senate does have a purpose and i feel it is important.....goes to sit having siad his piece without one single penis reference
[11:25] Enamabala Towradgi: Achille's idea of making the Senate more of a meeting ground for the officers of Roma's groups would give the body purpose, but where would the non-officer members sit? What would they get to do?
[11:25] Torin Golding: lol silver
[11:25] Airedale Magic: loool
[11:25] Silverbow Janus: grins
[11:25] Enamabala Towradgi: Like Torin said, that would only make the Senate smaller.
[11:25] JT Vale: With all due respect, Maali, and you know how much I care for you, but you and I have both had our chance.
[11:25] Torin Golding: Achille's idea is actually passively what I think we all hoped the senate WOULD be
[11:25] Enamabala Towradgi: Agreed.
[11:25] JT Vale: Agreed.
[11:25] JT Vale: Agreed.
[11:26] Maali Beck: what are you saying, JT?
[11:26] Enamabala Towradgi: And it's not like the senate doesn't have an impact.. in fact.. I see more people here right now combined between citizens and senators than I see at some of Roma's festivals.
[11:26] Silverbow Janus: roars out.....if you try to keep me out of senate meetings then there will be knives at dawn
[11:26] Maali Beck: Anyone else in the senate could run for Princeps
[11:26] JT Vale: It's time to let a new type of Senate emerge.
[11:26] Enamabala Towradgi: We need to find a way to harness that energy.
[11:26] Torin Golding: good point Enam
[11:26] Spaciva Ivanova: raises hand respectfully ..
[11:27] Torin Golding: Though for the record I am in favor of grafting on new fruit, not chopping down the tree
[11:27] Enamabala Towradgi: Ironic that the people who are relegated to be here are the ones who don't show up. :P
[11:27] Maali Beck: yes, Spaciva?
[11:28] Spaciva Ivanova: what if.. there were elections for the positions in the senate ?
[11:28] Maali Beck: that is how we operate now, Spa
[11:28] JT Vale: I thnk we need to take a bold step, T. Governments change. It is life.
[11:28] Maali Beck: the senate votes on officers
[11:28] Maali Beck: and on members
[11:28] Maali Beck: is that what you meant, Spa?
[11:28] JT Vale: I don't think we need to be sad.
[11:28] Melanippe Karas: She means a popular election.
[11:28] Spaciva Ivanova: people wishing to join or indeed , even stay in the senate, would have to court all the citizens... the patricians, the plebs... campaign.... make insincere campaign promises
[11:29] Torin Golding: Achille's suggestion of transfering the Senate into a 'managerial group' is one that is interesting but not without danger.
[11:29] JT Vale: This is a greatopportnity.
[11:29] Melanippe Karas: That's why many governments have two bodies, for balance.
[11:29] JT Vale: And those who want to participte, will. Perhaps with even new energy and reason.
[11:29] Serafina Itano: Maybe we should bestow meritorious ROMA citizens with a senate membership....without apply , as a kind to honour their work for ROMA
[11:29] Enamabala Towradgi: I have an idea.
[11:29] Torin Golding: Interesing idea Serafina
[11:29] Enamabala Towradgi: I like that idea as well.
[11:29] Maali Beck feels completely railroaded
[11:30] JT Vale: Maali, do you like to drive a train with no one on it?
[11:30] Torin Golding: (though that sort of managerial structure is already set up for the Theatrum.... where it does not function)
[11:30] Enamabala Towradgi: You shouldn't Maali. I don't want the Senate to go away any more than you do, but I think JT and Torin are right. What we have now isn't working very well.
[11:30] Silverbow Janus: grins and realises i will never make a senator unless i get a badge for bedding lol
[11:30] Torin Golding: I am not in total agreement with JT
[11:30] Enamabala Towradgi: Nor am I.
[11:31] Enamabala Towradgi: But if I may?
[11:31] William Gide also feels a mixed appointed and elected body covers good ground.
[11:31] JT Vale: And I am not the dictator of the Senate.
[11:31] JT Vale: This needs to be put to a vote.
[11:31] Torin Golding: I have wanted to see a repurposing for ages now, but I am not in favor of taking away any powers or groups wholesale.
[11:31] JT Vale: And talked about in the future.
[11:31] Achille Back finally takes his hand out of the gladius
[11:31] Maali Beck: parliamentary procedure went out the window when JT started this conversation, E, go ahead
[11:32] Spaciva Ivanova: perhaps the campaigning.. outside the senate... involoving roman citizens , in itself would generate more interest ??
[11:32] JT Vale: But we just spent the hour in lively conversation.
[11:32] JT Vale: This is what we're about.
[11:32] Maali Beck: you did
[11:32] Melanippe Karas: So... volunteer Senators, elected Senators and group officers, yes?
[11:33] Melanippe Karas: Like a tricameral body.
[11:33] Enamabala Towradgi: JT is right, change is usually revolutionary and upsetting at first. Torin is also correct that the Senate has lacked purpose. I agree that change needs to be made to preserve the group, but I feel that compromise is the best solution. Achille's idea to make the Senate a meeting forum for Roma's officers has merit, but it excludes non-officers from broad participation. . .
[11:33] Melanippe Karas: (If I use the term correctly.)
[11:33] Torin Golding: Would group officers show up to a Senate meeting?
[11:34] Enamabala Towradgi: . . . I liked Serafina's idea of allowing membership to be granted as a reward for service. I also feel that I struck on a good note by bringing up the fact that senate meetings bring together Roma's citizens consistently. And I agree that a restructuring may be necessary.
[11:34] Silverbow Janus: mumbles that i will still 'think aloud' at meetings
[11:34] Spaciva Ivanova: raises hand again, shyly
[11:34] JT Vale: I agree with E's summation. We need to add members at large to the officer's group.
[11:34] Melanippe Karas: Senators Emeritus?
[11:34] Melanippe Karas: Senators-without-portfolio?
[11:34] Maali Beck: yes, Spa?
[11:35] Enamabala Towradgi: Why not make the Senate more of a representative group of the citizenry of Roma? Allow the public the opportunity to involve their ideas into what we do in Roma as a whole, let the senate vote on those ideas, and allow the officers to plan collectively to implement them?
[11:35] JT Vale: Thinking outloud is the spice of SL.
[11:35] Torin Golding would rather have a singluar body of movers and shakers interested in helping to organize things in ROMA (the main area we need assistance in as estate mangers) than a House of Lords / House of Commons bi-structure.
[11:35] Spaciva Ivanova: one of the things I enjoy reading about ancient senate, the orators .... what if .. at some point , in each meeting one of the members selects a famous speech given by and ancient and 'orates' it here... giving all the eloquence they can command... ??
[11:36] Torin Golding: We do do that to an extent. With the ability for anyone to address the senate
[11:36] Tonina Rodenberger: maybe in latin? /me coughs ;-)
[11:36] Silverbow Janus: i always feel i can put my oar in
[11:36] Melanippe Karas laughs
[11:36] Maali Beck: Only you could do that, Nina
[11:36] Maali Beck: ;-)
[11:36] Tonina Rodenberger: lol, nooooooo, Maali
[11:37] Torin Golding: Spaci i agree that would be interesting, though it does require preparation and execution. And we're having trouble finding people to just attend a meeting I fear :(
[11:37] Achille Back nods
[11:37] Spaciva Ivanova: would it be a purpose ?? the preparing.. the coming to hear what/who .... ??
[11:37] Tonina Rodenberger: thats a lot of work, Spa
[11:37] Torin Golding: But we should not over-state the problem. This sort of problem is common throughout SL....
[11:38] Melanippe Karas: It'd be good for an event.
[11:38] Torin Golding: It is the nature of this world.
[11:38] Spaciva Ivanova: yes, but isn't something that comes too easily, not as greatly appreciated ?
[11:38] Torin Golding: As long as you can just log in and tp anywhere, the majority will be interested as far as they are interested, no more.
[11:38] Silverbow Janus: may i suggst to start with having a regular day and time for meetings before throwing baby and bathwater out?
[11:39] Torin Golding: There will be a core that are repeaters and arrange their RL schedules around SL.
[11:39] Torin Golding: Not the other way around.
[11:39] Spaciva Ivanova: agrees with Silver, that made all the difference for the legio, once we had regular days/times
[11:39] Maali Beck: is that practical, T?
[11:39] JT Vale: If I knew that I couldbe at a meeting with Torin and talk about ROMA, I woul wantto be a part of that group.
[11:39] Enamabala Towradgi: A little early to be drinking, JT.
[11:40] Silverbow Janus: I always watch out for sunday evenings in case thee is a senate....always chwck with maali
[11:40] Torin Golding: As I said JT, that was what passively I think we all hoped the Senate would be.
[11:40] Torin Golding: And those willing to be officers in a group are rare! Just look at the handfull of people already who do 90% of the organizing in ROMA
[11:41] Torin Golding: That percentage will not change I think with more people
[11:41] Enamabala Towradgi: I'd do it, but I'm a wuss and fear I'd suck at it.
[11:41] Torin Golding: More people however will fill in the chairs as the old ones move on
[11:41] Spaciva Ivanova: looks around... there are more people here today than usually show up at legio meetings and collegia meetings combined
[11:41] Enamabala Towradgi: Or that it would burn me out and I'd... brace yourself... lose interest.
[11:41] Maali Beck: I still fear that the same small group who now controls ROMA
[11:41] Torin Golding: Which i think is the heart of the senate's problem. We're all old
[11:41] Enamabala Towradgi: I'm not old. >:\
[11:41] Maali Beck: will have the only opportunities
[11:41] Melanippe Karas giggles
[11:42] Maali Beck: to serve ROMA
[11:42] Maali Beck: instead of those of us who wish to serve
[11:42] Enamabala Towradgi is the baby in this group.
[11:42] JT Vale: If I knew that I would be in a meeting with Torin, was elected and actually had a chance to talk about things that could happen in this ROMA, I would take it seriously. And I would be very proud of my membership.
[11:42] Maali Beck: be are not in the daytime zones
[11:42] Torin Golding: lol E. You had the very first rental stall in ROMA and one of the very first subura plots. You're not a baby
[11:42] Enamabala Towradgi: I'm only 30. ;.;
[11:43] William Gide raises hand to speak.
[11:43] Maali Beck: yes William?
[11:43] William Gide: Are there really any impediments to people becoming officers or getting more involved in ROMA?...
[11:43] Torin Golding: But JT i think you're the exception to the 90%
[11:43] William Gide: When I got back into SL after considerable time away, I had several people petition me to join the Senate.
[11:43] MarkTwain White is Offline
[11:44] Maali Beck: William, I think today is a good example
[11:44] Melanippe Karas: The impediments are interest and self-sacrifice.
[11:44] Melanippe Karas: Or lack of them.
[11:44] William Gide: But I choose not to be involved in that way, partly of time, etc. Yes, Mela.
[11:44] William Gide: Yet I have never been turned away from speaking at Senate meetings.
[11:44] William Gide: Torin can be reached, as can officers of groups.
[11:44] Torin Golding: From where I sit William, i see very few. But then I do not have the best vantage point. I think I'm very personable, but i am told some are afraid to approach me. It's electronic virtual world syndrome again.
[11:45] Nasrullah Atlas raises hand.
[11:45] Torin Golding: YEs every group officer sacrifices
[11:45] William Gide: All I'm saying is, as others have hinted at, the core group of any such organization will always be small.
[11:45] Maali Beck: Perhaps this discussion can be taken to the next level
[11:45] William Gide: Most people have obligations outside of SL that precludes really deep commitments required for something called a Senate.
[11:45] Maali Beck: as discussion on the ROMA blog pages
[11:45] Torin Golding: Nas?
[11:46] William Gide: From my standpoint, I see no impediment to newbs interested in serious involvement; so, I'm not worried about Oldbie involvement in the highest levels.
[11:46] Nasrullah Atlas: If you designated x positions, say 10, and had an election for 5 every 6 months, you would certainly get the 'name' of the Senate out there more. They may be more positions than interest, that is true, but you would then have a procedure to continusouly confirm there is interest on the part of specific individuals in the Senate.
[11:46] Maali Beck: it seems my job carriees no clout here today ata ll
[11:46] Maali Beck: at all*
[11:46] William Gide is done.
[11:46] Nasrullah Atlas: And all citizens could vote, feel a part of their Senate, and be more active in this group.
[11:46] Melanippe Karas looks sympathetically at Maali
[11:47] Joey Montgolfier giggles at the thought of Rome becoming a Republic...
[11:47] Melanippe Karas: SPQR.
[11:47] Spaciva Ivanova: pictures Roma sprinkled with campaign signs and people currying favor from the citizens to acquire their votes ...
[11:47] Torin Golding: But to what purpose? For me, what I would like to see ideally is a group of people who are also acitve in other groups and who spend their time in ROMA who can gather to talk about what needs done.... and then follow through on organizing and making those things happen.
[11:48] Torin Golding: It is the last clause in that sentence that is key
[11:48] Torin Golding: for me
[11:48] Melanippe Karas: Praefectus - people have different motivations.
[11:48] Melanippe Karas: Someone who wants public attention will make an effort to get elected.
[11:48] JT Vale: I think a new Senatecould gain that mission.
[11:49] Melanippe Karas: The volunteer Senators do it because they can contribute.
[11:49] Nasrullah Atlas: The purpose is to have 1) a method of continuously renewing ROMA 's Senate and 2) to make sure people who want to be involved -- those who want to participate and be active in the Senate.
[11:49] Maali Beck: how about those of us who wish to serve ROMA?
[11:49] Maali Beck: and her citizens?
[11:49] Melanippe Karas: The group officers would participate as adjunct to their chosen roles.
[11:49] Maali Beck: this fact that this discussion as lost any form
[11:49] Maali Beck: which the censor should have confined
[11:49] JT Vale: They will continue to serve, Maali, but with new inspiration and purpose.
[11:50] Maali Beck: is a good sign that there leaves little hope of this senate structure to continue
[11:50] Maali Beck: I feel I have failed the Senate
[11:50] Maali Beck: and ROMA
[11:50] JT Vale: No, the Princeps maintains the meetings. We just check people at the door.
[11:50] JT Vale: You have not failed, Maali.
[11:50] Spaciva Ivanova: aww Maali, I think today is an exception,
[11:50] Melanippe Karas: :(
[11:50] JT Vale: This is not about you at all.
[11:50] Torin Golding: Those Maali right now are the officers of each group, including this one. They serve by their service. One issue is how to get the rest of the senate to rise to that level
[11:50] Maali Beck nods
[11:51] Maali Beck: in that case, I feel the need to resing
[11:51] Maali Beck: resign
[11:51] JT Vale: You have served very well. It is about the Senate and mostly about the fact that the Senators are not here.
[11:51] Enamabala Towradgi: It is, Maali. This is something that needed to be broadly discussed and to try to contain this within the normal structure of our meetings would have consumed a lot of time and frusrtated a lot of people.
[11:51] Enamabala Towradgi: Don't consider this a failing on your part, please.
[11:51] Torin Golding: Yes this isnt about current officers of the seante. This is about the vacant seats
[11:51] Silverbow Janus: dont you dare resign maali
[11:52] Torin Golding: (although that includes one current officer)
[11:52] Maali Beck: I do think this discussion should include any remaining members of the senate
[11:52] Maali Beck: before they are cast to the curb
[11:52] Maali Beck: without any say
[11:52] Enamabala Towradgi: Nobody is being cast to the curb.
[11:52] Enamabala Towradgi: No decisions are being made right now.
[11:52] JT Vale: I had the same problem as Princeps, Maali.
[11:52] Maali Beck: JT has made his pont
[11:52] Maali Beck: point*
[11:53] Torin Golding: punt?
[11:53] Maali Beck: it seems to me, E
[11:53] JT Vale: lol
[11:53] JT Vale: Exactly, T.
[11:53] Maali Beck: that the decisions have been made today
[11:53] Enamabala Towradgi: But with all due respect, if they wanted to have any say in what's being said... shouldn't they be here?
[11:53] Maali Beck: am I not here?
[11:53] JT Vale: PUnt and get better field position the next tme.
[11:53] Enamabala Towradgi: Was speaking of the absents.
[11:53] JT Vale: Yes, E.
[11:53] Silverbow Janus: they may have valid reasons and it is unfair to cast aspersions that they do not care
[11:54] JT Vale: I think this needs to be a motion.
[11:54] Torin Golding: I agree silver
[11:54] Enamabala Towradgi: I would agree with you, Silver if this was the first time.
[11:54] JT Vale: And let's see if those not present show up to debate.
[11:54] Spaciva Ivanova: RL intrudes often and cannot always be controlled
[11:54] Torin Golding: First time for some
[11:54] Enamabala Towradgi: For some, yes.
[11:54] Enamabala Towradgi: For others it would be a first to show up consistently.
[11:54] Torin Golding: Maali did any senator absent today give you an excuse for why they could not attend?
[11:54] Maali Beck: no, T
[11:54] Achille Back: :-S
[11:54] JT Vale: They don't care.
[11:55] Tonina Rodenberger frowns
[11:55] Torin Golding: Not necessarily JT
[11:55] Enamabala Towradgi: I don't believe that, JT.
[11:55] JT Vale: I know, I'm exagerating.
[11:55] Enamabala Towradgi: They may think it's unimportant, however.
[11:55] Joey Montgolfier thinks there would be better attendance if there was, say, a buffet... with deserts...
[11:55] Torin Golding: We as a body have not held absentees accountable before
[11:55] JT Vale: But it shows that the meeting as litle impact if you cant even send an excuse.
[11:55] Torin Golding: Which is a dangerous role
[11:55] Silverbow Janus: that is an awful thing to say when some of those missing have done so much for roma..... I am horrified to hear that
[11:55] Torin Golding: SL can not support quorums like RL organzinations
[11:56] JT Vale: Agreed.
[11:56] Maali Beck looks for the dagger that JT cast in my side
[11:56] Torin Golding: But what i'm interested in is finding a solution that creates a desire to attend, and a sense of importance to those who take part so they feel they at least need to offer an apology of not being able to attend
[11:57] Torin Golding: We can't punnish non attendance per se
[11:57] JT Vale: It's not about you Maali!!!!!!
[11:57] JT Vale: Think about the Senate, not Maali.
[11:57] Melanippe Karas: It's a matter of keeping your word.
[11:57] Enamabala Towradgi: I'll be the first to admit that I have no solutions, but I want to do whatever I can to be part OF a solution.
[11:58] Spaciva Ivanova: ditto, E
[11:58] Torin Golding: So there are several proposed solutions:
[11:58] Achille Back: I can guarantee that the legion officers can do their parts, whenver the senate will require.
[11:58] Torin Golding: If I may try to summarize
[11:59] Torin Golding: JT- dissolve and start again, Achille- turn senate into conclave for ROMA managers, Spaciva- turn senate into more elected by populace with place for cultural events, Nas- rotating elected membership
[11:59] Torin Golding: Did I miss any?
[12:00] Joey Montgolfier: No buffet?
[12:00] JT Vale: lol
[12:00] William Gide raises hand!
[12:00] Torin Golding: buffet goes without saying
[12:00] Joey Montgolfier: :-)
[12:00] Torin Golding: Will what was yours?
[12:00] Enamabala Towradgi: Yes, I propose that the senate become Margaritaville. :P
[12:00] MarkTwain White is Offline
[12:00] Spaciva Ivanova: hands Joey a muffin
[12:00] Melanippe Karas would vote for 'all of the above'.
[12:00] Spaciva Ivanova: and E a drink :P
[12:00] William Gide: Not mine — several have suggested a mixed Senate: some appointed, some elected, some the officers.
[12:00] Enamabala Towradgi: All of the above was kinda my idea. :P
[12:01] Monty Llewellyn: I like the mixed Idea from William
[12:01] Torin Golding: All of those, except for JT's suggtion, can be created within the current structure i believe
[12:01] William Gide: Several have hinted at it.
[12:01] Enamabala Towradgi: And my only qualm with the mixed idea is what do the people who aren't managers to do?
[12:01] Torin Golding: JT- dissolve and start again, Achille- turn senate into conclave for ROMA managers, Spaciva- turn senate into more elected by populace with place for cultural events, Nas- rotating elected membership, Multiple- mixed senate (appointed, elected, officers), Enama- all of the above
[12:02] Enamabala Towradgi: That's our problem now. People don't have anything to do... so they don't show up.
[12:02] JT Vale: I'm not saying that we can't use the existing structure, but why not have a fresh start? Why can't we make a ROMA Senate II?
[12:02] Melanippe Karas waves her hand this time
[12:02] William Gide raises hand again.
[12:02] Enamabala Towradgi: Excuse me for a few minutes.
[12:02] Maali Beck: if we are not Estate managers, then there is no need for our services
[12:02] JT Vale: This historical period of the first Senate has ended.
[12:02] Torin Golding: I agree Enam, but there is a distinction between offering a role and seeking a role to play.
[12:02] Maali Beck: yes, Mela?
[12:02] Maali Beck: then William
[12:03] Melanippe Karas: Thank you, Princeps - the Vexalia Maxima just started a 'task board' for the Collegia members.
[12:03] Torin Golding: For example, the Ave weekend path to a role to play is not very trodden.
[12:03] Melanippe Karas: This way, we know what is needing to be done in general, and have a checklist for our own volunteered or assigned tasks for events.
[12:03] Maali Beck: yes
[12:03] Melanippe Karas: A reformed Senate could use that idea to get things done.
[12:04] Maali Beck: ty, Mela, good suggestion
[12:04] Maali Beck: William?
[12:04] William Gide: A reply to a worry of E's —
[12:04] William Gide: The Senate is not only a body for getting things done. —
[12:04] Maali Beck: Aire, I have not forgotten you
[12:04] Maali Beck: go ahead, Will
[12:05] William Gide: The appointment of poeple who have served ROMA in significant ways that don't necessarily involve being head of a group seems reasonable to me.
[12:05] Airedale Magic: :) Princeps
[12:05] William Gide: For the Glory, as it were. :)
[12:05] Maali Beck: true, the Senate pay is lacking
[12:05] Torin Golding: There is an RAS badge involved ;)
[12:05] Maali Beck: ;-)
[12:06] Torin Golding: I agree William. Though again passively we had all hoped that would be the case anyway. It may be time to make that more explicit.
[12:06] William Gide: But, these matters need longer discussion. I'm done.
[12:06] Maali Beck: ty Will
[12:06] Maali Beck: Aire, you had a suggestion?
[12:07] Airedale Magic: yes i did
[12:07] Airedale Magic: may i speak now
[12:07] Airedale Magic: errrrmmmm
[12:07] Maali Beck: yes, please
[12:07] Airedale Magic: look nervous shy smiles
[12:08] Airedale Magic: Fellow citizens I have a proposal for a fun event in ROMA. The title would be ROMA goes Thriller. We have come across a dance animation for the MJ song Thriller which synchronizes the dances for all who wear it. Senator Vale has agreed to film the event if we have it. We would need a mob of citizens to dance down the streets of ROMA.
[12:08] Maali Beck: Do you have a specific date in mind?
[12:08] Airedale Magic: errrr nooooo Princeps
[12:09] Maali Beck: ok, ty, Aire
[12:09] Airedale Magic: This is just and idea at this moment
[12:09] Maali Beck: that sound like a fun event to gather citizens together
[12:10] Airedale Magic: Thank you for allowing me to address the senate and citizens
[12:10] Maali Beck: ;-)
[12:10] Torin Golding: If the senate were something along the lines of Achille's suggestion, bringing an idea for an event to it at meeting time would 1) announce it, 2) get volunteers to help organzie and run it. #2 is the most important (and the most difficult to accompish most of the time)
[12:10] Melanippe Karas laughs ironically
[12:10] Maali Beck: my concern with that idea is
[12:11] Torin Golding: Regardless of the makeup of the senatorial ranks.
[12:11] Spaciva Ivanova: I'm sorry... sigh .. RL ..... please excuse me for a bit ?
[12:11] Torin Golding: hb spaci
[12:11] Maali Beck: that should the officers be the only ones permitted to serve ROMA
[12:11] Maali Beck: then others will lose interest in being in ROMA
[12:11] Achille Back rises hand
[12:11] Torin Golding: I agree Maali.
[12:11] Maali Beck: feeling excluded because they are not permitted
[12:11] Monty Llewellyn: nods
[12:11] Maali Beck: and we may lose citizens as well
[12:11] JT Vale: That is why I'm calling for members at large.
[12:12] Maali Beck: you are calling them, JT?
[12:12] Torin Golding: that is why I like taking the mixed character from some of the other suggestions and graft that to this idea
[12:12] JT Vale: These would be the coveted positions on the Senate.
[12:12] JT Vale: In my proposal.
[12:12] Torin Golding: Achille raised his hand
[12:12] JT Vale: Or my tacking on to the other proposals.
[12:13] Enamabala Towradgi: Sorry about that.
[12:13] Torin Golding: wb enam
[12:13] Enamabala Towradgi: thanks.
[12:13] JT Vale: I've have been reading the Tabellae Principatus A Senatus A ROMA. We have strayed very far from our guiding document. We are not aligned on many levels.
[12:13] Achille Back holds his hand rised
[12:13] Maali Beck: yes, Achille?
[12:13] JT Vale: It's time for a fresh start.
[12:14] Achille Back: Honorable Senatores, I wish to specify a thing wich maybe I could not explain well in my first speech
[12:15] Achille Back: wich is, that the groups officers can form up a core in the senate, but the rest can for sure be persons elected by the citizens who wish to serve Roma, like the ones wich are doing it now.
[12:15] Silverbow Janus: thinks it sounds good to me
[12:15] Monty Llewellyn: agreed
[12:15] Achille Back: Only gorup officers in the senate will for sure close a way for the common citizen to let ROMA hear their voices
[12:15] Torin Golding: No senate meeting has ever been exclusive
[12:16] Maali Beck: Thank you Achille
[12:16] Achille Back: Thank you Princeps.
[12:16] Torin Golding: Both JT and Maali have been fantastic at making the citizenry feel included in the proceedings I feel.
[12:16] Torin Golding: In their role as pinceps
[12:16] Silverbow Janus: hear hear
[12:16] Melanippe Karas nods
[12:16] Monty Llewellyn: nods
[12:16] Enamabala Towradgi: Without a doubt.
[12:16] Torin Golding: Is there a suggestion of having the senate be more like a ROMA roundtable?
[12:17] Torin Golding: That that can be its purpose.
[12:17] Melanippe Karas: I would commend the Princeps for her strenuous efforts during fundraisers.
[12:17] Maali Beck: tyvm, Mela
[12:17] Silverbow Janus: I would liketo comend the princeps during this feisty meeting
[12:18] Achille Back claps for the princeps senatus
[12:18] Torin Golding: Yes. I do not consider the senate or senate leadership to have failed in any way whatsoever. I've been calling for a clear purpose of the senate since it was created.
[12:18] Maali Beck: In the interest of time, perhaps it would be advisable to take this discussion to the ROMA blogs
[12:18] Maali Beck: for everyone to participate in
[12:18] JT Vale: I would be in favor of that purpose, Torin.
[12:18] William Gide is so glad he finished that script to turn Senate chat logs into Wiki markup automagically...
[12:18] Torin Golding: A redesign and rethink may accomplish that purpose (finally)
[12:19] Maali Beck: ty for your efforts, Will
[12:19] Melanippe Karas wants a copy of William's script
[12:19] JT Vale: But let' not use our Tabellae to fit this new purpose. Let's write a new one.
[12:19] Maali Beck: he has a url
[12:19] Torin Golding: But a redesign and repurpose that does not throw the baby out with the bath water is what i advocate
[12:19] Maali Beck: are you leading this charge, JT?
[12:19] JT Vale: I would like to add this to the agenda of the next meeting
[12:20] JT Vale: I will speak for it.
[12:20] Maali Beck: we have no senate apparently to meet
[12:20] Maali Beck: you dissolved it today
[12:20] JT Vale: I will prepare a statement.
[12:20] JT Vale: I can't dissolve the Senate.
[12:20] Maali Beck: single handedly
[12:20] Torin Golding: Only i can ;)
[12:20] JT Vale: lol
[12:20] JT Vale: Yes, only He can.
[12:20] JT Vale: :-)
[12:20] Tonina Rodenberger: lol
[12:21] JT Vale: Perhaps more Senators will show up if they know their position is in jeopardy.
[12:21] Achille Back thinks whenever there will be a senate revolt, the legions will be on the Emperor's side.
[12:21] JT Vale: I will share my statement with the members before the meeting.
[12:21] Torin Golding: All calls to reform and calls of caution are coming from the same place, to strenghten the purpose of the senate so more people participate.
[12:21] JT Vale: Perhaps we can set a meeting date.
[12:21] Maali Beck: how very kind of you
[12:22] JT Vale: I am frankly shocked at the calls upon my sentiment for the Senate from some of the members, /me glances at Sera.
[12:22] Torin Golding: Can we move this to the messageboard (public) with william's transcript to get more thoughtful structure to the ideas and proposals?
[12:23] JT Vale: I dare anyone to call my devotion to this Senate in question.
[12:23] Serafina Itano smiles back
[12:23] Enamabala Towradgi: JT doesn't want the senate to go away, Maali, I think he's suggesting that we kind of play chicken with it.
[12:24] Torin Golding: With the stated purpose of creating a more purpose driven senate?
[12:24] JT Vale: I am prepared work within the framework that we estblished to make this a beneficial and productive group in the service of ROMA.
[12:24] Torin Golding: Or making the senate more purpose driven? That is a better phrasing
[12:24] Torin Golding: Like the healthcare bill, we have several proposals that we now need to craft into something workable
[12:26] Torin Golding:
- JT- dissolve and start again
- Achille- turn senate into conclave for ROMA managers and other interested
- Spaciva- turn senate into more elected by populace with place for cultural events
- Nas- rotating elected membership
- Multiple- mixed senate (appointed, elected, officers)
- Enama- all of the above
- No change
[12:26] Torin Golding: Can I tell a short story?
[12:26] JT Vale: Or some combination of the above, brought out in th e politicl process.
[12:27] Maali Beck: please T
[12:27] Torin Golding: I went to a managerial meeting loosely based on this type of structure (senate) in another ancient sim once....
[12:28] Torin Golding: For two hours they argued about how to extend the estate power to ban people, and who should get that power....
[12:29] Torin Golding: We've spent two hours hashing through some very important ideas and concepts with the idea of how to make ROMA better and how to allow people to best serve ROMA....
[12:29] Torin Golding: Night and day, night and day. And that just goes to show the strength of character and intellect and dedication and intelligence of our citizenry.
[12:30] Torin Golding: We will approach all of these suggestions with seriousness and compassionate debate because that is how ROMA operates....
[12:30] Maali Beck: who will be included in the debate, T?
[12:30] Torin Golding: And THAT more than anything keeps the gates to ROMA open.
[12:31] Torin Golding: We have a tradition of allowing multiple voices into the debate I think. We benefit from that....
[12:31] Torin Golding: That is why i suggested the public section of the senate messageboard to start.
[12:32] Torin Golding: Under the current tabellae, it is the current officers, me and the Emperor who will legislate any changes to the tabellae.
[12:32] Maali Beck nods
[12:33] Torin Golding: I think this is a referendum on the senate, not any senator. They all hang together.
[12:33] JT Vale: I would suggest citizens talk to Senators to share their ideas. And the Senate will use its process to determine the outcome.
[12:33] Maali Beck: oh good a lynching mob
[12:33] Torin Golding: Not at all.
[12:33] Torin Golding: Maali your position is not going anywhere.
[12:34] Torin Golding: Neither is JT's. Mickey's MIA so that includes him too I guess.
[12:34] Enamabala Towradgi: No one is out for anyone's job or critisizing anyone's actions or pointing fingers. I believe it's more like Torin said. We're trying to find our identify and purpose.
[12:34] Torin Golding: Not going anywhere in the sense of it will not be deleted.
[12:34] Torin Golding: We've been trying for 3 years Enam.
[12:35] Monty Llewellyn: lol
[12:35] Enamabala Towradgi: I believe I speak for everyone here when I say that you have done a fantastic job as Princeps and personally, I have no problem with you continuing to do so.
[12:35] Maali Beck: ty E, very kind of you
[12:35] Silverbow Janus: hear hear
[12:35] Torin Golding: Does that suggest a radical rethink? Why not. Thinking is free. This is the liveliest the Senate has been in three years!! I'm happy about that.
[12:35] William Gide: hear hear
[12:35] Monty Llewellyn: agreed
[12:35] Joey Montgolfier: .....:: Clapping ::.....
[12:36] Enamabala Towradgi: JT's suggestion was not to destroy the Senate, it was to provoke the inactive members into action to save it from his suggestion to destroy it.
[12:36] Achille Back: /claps
[12:36] Torin Golding: Absolutey E. Maali the senate would not function without you.
[12:37] Torin Golding: And you have been a tremendous boon to both ROMA and the Senate. There is one thing that has been out of your hands, as it was out of JT's hands when he was princeps- the inactive members. Those are who are on the chopping block today in my opinion.
[12:37] Maali Beck nods
[12:37] JT Vale: ACtually, it was E. My preference would be t dissolve thi Senat and ceate a totally new onethat would be free to bewhat it wants to be.
[12:37] Torin Golding: And so we can rethink the defintion of a senator to see what needs to be fixed.
[12:38] Enamabala Towradgi: Half dozen of one, 6 of the other.
[12:38] Torin Golding: I dont think vacuums get filled like that in SL, JT
[12:38] Torin Golding: And the brain power in this room is fantastic
[12:38] Enamabala Towradgi: Because I have a feeling if you made the proposal there would be a tremendous motion against it.
[12:38] Enamabala Towradgi: ...which I also believe you'd be ok with. :P
[12:38] Torin Golding: if 5 is a tremendous motion ;)
[12:38] Achille Back smiles
[12:39] Maali Beck: so, the discussion that started today
[12:39] Enamabala Towradgi: Ever played poke the beehive, T?
[12:39] Maali Beck: will continue for all of ROMA on the discussion blogs
[12:39] Silverbow Janus: motions again.....looks at the floor to see any motions that need to be cleaned up
[12:39] JT Vale: I think it wold be better to write a new Tabellae than ammend the current
[12:39] Torin Golding: That would be my motion, maali. There is a lot of good ideas floating around this chamber now.
[12:39] Maali Beck: I agree
[12:40] Torin Golding: Just like the redisgn of the hippodrome
[12:40] Maali Beck: we need a second to the motion
[12:40] Torin Golding: Same basic shape, improved infrastructure
[12:40] Enamabala Towradgi: I second the motion on the floor.
[12:40] Maali Beck: ty, E
[12:40] Maali Beck: all in favor of the motion to continue discussion on the blogs indicate
[12:40] Maali Beck: by aye
[12:40] Torin Golding: aye
[12:40] Enamabala Towradgi: aye
[12:40] Monty Llewellyn: aye
[12:40] Serafina Itano: aye
[12:41] Maali Beck: oppossed?
[12:41] Maali Beck: JT are you abstaining?
[12:41] Maali Beck: or snoozing?
[12:41] Torin Golding: *poke poke*
[12:41] Maali Beck: regardless, motion carries
[12:41] Maali Beck: by vast majority
[12:41] Maali Beck: :-0
[12:41] Torin Golding: ROFL
[12:42] Enamabala Towradgi moves JT's lips, and throws his voice "aye"
[12:42] JT Vale: Sorry.
[12:42] Torin Golding: hehe
[12:42] Achille Back whispers: Eject him, he is not active. ;-)
[12:42] JT Vale: Hooking up a real keyboard.
[12:42] Joey Montgolfier: Hahaha. :-)
[12:42] JT Vale calls a timeout.
[12:42] Torin Golding: see RL intervened
[12:42] William Gide: Don't worry, JT, I've been fixing your... interesting...spelling.
[12:42] Torin Golding: lol will
[12:42] Maali Beck: Thank you to all who participated in this debate today
[12:42] Torin Golding applauds
[12:43] Maali Beck: we appreciate your comments and active participation
[12:43] Achille Back claps
[12:43] Joey Montgolfier: Um...
[12:43] Torin Golding: Liveliest in 3 years!
[12:43] William Gide cannot go pee until someone closes this session!
[12:43] Tonina Rodenberger smiles
[12:43] Joey Montgolfier nervously raises a hand...
[12:43] Maali Beck: yes Joey?
[12:43] Ragark Fiertze: ^_^
[12:43] Joey Montgolfier: What about the buffets?
[12:43] JT Vale: I vote nay. I want to communicate with Senators directly through the group. I don't think they read the blog.
[12:43] Melanippe Karas giggles
[12:43] Monty Llewellyn: smiles
[12:43] Maali Beck: motion carried in your absence
[12:43] Torin Golding: messageboard, not blog
[12:43] Maali Beck: what you do outside of that is up to you
[12:44] Torin Golding: http://romacitizens.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=curia
[12:44] JT Vale: Right,messagboard.
[12:44] Maali Beck: Meeting adjourned
[12:44] Torin Golding: Volunteers to start a thread
[12:44] Monty Llewellyn: thank you Prefect
[12:44] Maali Beck feels the need for a bath
[12:45] Silverbow Janus: needs adrink
[12:45] Torin Golding wonders if he can move now
[12:45] Torin Golding: yay no lag
[12:45] Melanippe Karas wonders if William can go relieve himself
[12:45] Maali Beck: cow dance outside!
[12:45] Torin Golding: senator dancers outside
[12:45] Nasrullah Atlas: Valete, all.
[12:45] Maali Beck: Sera's favorite part
[12:45] William Gide: Formal close to senate, please!
[12:46] Achille Back: All the citizens, move outside the curia, the meeting is over.
